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Orange Jellybaby fungus, on moss - exciting!

  • Hello Germany. I hope you can help me with this exciting finding growing on wet soil covered with moss.


    I have collected a sample (including soil) and stored it in the fridge so as I want to have advice from you on how to proceed to determine the genus (and species!).


    I noticed a pruinosity on the surface, when slightly touched, the outer surface easily breaks in releasing its sap and hence the pruinosity islost leaving a darker color (hope I explained myself well here). There seams to be a stipe that is yellowish. Verry irregular fruiting bodies. It is not in my opinion: Leotia, Auricularia or Dacrymyces (but D. palmata looks a bit similar, but this is a wood saprotroph).


    If these photos can't tell the species I am interested to learn how to carry on. I have three (four) specimens.

  • Hello Steve,


    I have no idea and have not seen anything similar yet.


    You need to do some microscoping to see what kind of basidia it has (heterobasidiomycete - homobasidiomycete), wether it has basidia at all, wether it might be an anamorphe fungus or wether it even might be an ascomycete.


    Also I would cut one of the boggest fruitbodies into half to see how it looks inside - is it gelatinous, or tough, is it completely solide or whatever.


    And I would dry at least one of the smaller fruitbodies in a temperature of 30° and preserve it in a eppendorf tube or similar thing, in case one would like to carry out some molecular study one day.


    all the best,

    Andreas

  • Good morning Steve,

    could these perhaps be very young Tremiscus helvelloides? I never found them so small, and I know that they occur on wood (Was there buried wood under your mushrooms?), but I thought that the colour and pruinosity as well as the irregular shapes might fit, just by comparing pictures. This is not a real opinion, just an idea, as I'm not an experienced mycologist.

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


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  • Hi Steve,

    That indeed looks exciting. Im pretty sure Tremiscus helvelloides doesnt just grow directly on wood, I definitely found some on the ground this year, not directly out of buried wood. Tr. helvelloides does indeed have some similarities to your specimen but to correctly identify those i think you have to put them under a microscope like Andreas said and if at all possible, return to the place and take a look at how the fruiting bodies developed. Excited to see what it might be!

    Best wishes

    Christian

  • Hi Steve,

    That indeed looks exciting. Im pretty sure Tremiscus helvelloides doesnt just grow directly on wood, I definitely found some on the ground this year, not directly out of buried wood. Tr. helvelloides does indeed have some similarities to your specimen but to correctly identify those i think you have to put them under a microscope like Andreas said and if at all possible, return to the place and take a look at how the fruiting bodies developed. Excited to see what it might be!

    Best wishes

    Christian


    Hallo Schrumz,

    naja wie gesagt, das war halt so eine "rein optische" Idee von mir mit der T. helvelloides. In meinen Büchern stand allerdings, die sei nur auf Holz oder Holzüberresten (zB Sägemehl) zu finden. Wenn du sie auch auf Erde gefunden hast, würde sie das zumindest ein bißchen näher in den Bereich des Möglichen rücken.

    Aber wenn Steve es wirklich rausfinden will, kommt er wohl ums Mikroskopieren oder sogar Einschicken nicht herum...abwarten und groß werden lassen ist natürlich auch eine gute Idee!


    Edit:

    Sorry, Steve, I forgot the translation! I wrote to Schrumz:


    "Hello Schrumz,

    as I said, it was just a kind of an "optical" idea of mine with the T. helvelloides. In my books I found the information that they grow on wood, but also on sawdust or woodchips and the like. If you've found them also on soil, it becomes a little more possible that Steve's find might be them.

    But if he really wants to find out, microscoping or even sending a sample away for sequencing can't be avoided...of course, wait and see until they're grown is a very good idea, too!"

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


    102 Pilzchips


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  • Hallo Schrumz, da muß ich wohl noch mal in mehr Büchern nachlesen. Bin gespannt, was Steve herausbekommt, wenn die größer sind und/oder er sie mikroskopiert hat.

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


    102 Pilzchips


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  • Hi Ahemi, if you see this too, my idea mentioned above might be not so bad after all...

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


    102 Pilzchips


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  • Hi.


    I usually find Tremiscus helvelloides on the ground at the side of the foot path on calcareous soil. But I've never seen them look like this. I considered it too, maybe even with some kind of infection but mainly because I could not think of a better option. Microscopy will be needed here and I'd agree that some specimen should be dried and sequenced if nothing fitting is found. They look pretty interesting, might well be something rare.


    LG.

    Bin lediglich fortgeschrittener Anfänger.
    Posts sind nicht als Essensfreigabe zu verstehen. :-]

  • Dear gentlemen, thank you for interest, comments and valuable suggestions about this fungus. I start tackling all your questions here, and micro in the next post.


    After a hard day at work, and sipping down my coffee, i was flipping Zannichelli fungi d'italia and spotted a fungus similar to mine - Guepinia helvelloides (sp. #1545) which is the same as what have been kindly suggested - Tremiscus helvelloides, but then the size (3-12cm) the habitat (mountain) and substrate (wood debris) did not match at all. This is about 1-2cm


    Quick answers:


    Is it growing on wood in the ground? - I did not see obvious wood parts in the compact calcareous soil, but it was growing under bushes of Pistaccia lentiscus (woody perennial) and it cannot be excluded to have small decaying twigs in the soil - honestly I don't think it is the case.


    Dry at 35C for sequencing: Yes I can


    Revisit site: It is in a remote place but I can


    Infected: No it is healthy


    Mature specimens: Those at home no :-(


    Is T. helvelloides specific to wood : On the net I see some images of this species surrounded by moss


    What does it match : The salmon-apricot colour, the fine pruinosity, the attenuated stipe coloured pale yellow or white, the wrinkled unsmoouth surface.


    Microscopy : yes, see post below

  • Microscopy:


    I dissected the largest specimen I have and clearly it contains a thin cuticle (0.2mm) which is salmon-apricot sitting on a medullary tissue which is white/pale orange. There is a core which is again colorful.


    The microscopy is boring and it is obvious that the specimen is immature. No spores has been observed, nor basidia or special reproductive organs. What I have seen is two types of mycelia or hyphal tissue.


    1. The cuticle consists of a dense tangled-intricated hyphae about 3um wide and curly / vermicular ending with an acute tip. They have many vacuolues


    2. The inner layer consist of parallel running oblong/tubular hyphae, curved/sigmoid but less intertwined or entangled as tissue in 1 and about 8-12 um thick. The transversal hypha are quite straight and perpendicular to the sides. Walls smooth, contents hyaline.


    That's it :-( :-(

  • Hi Steve,


    loocking at the first of the new pictures in your last post, I don’t think Tremiscus helvelloides is the right idea, because it isn‘t white inside, but of same colour as the surface, which is also different, somewhat raspberry-red.

    So, no idea anymore.


    Greets

    Andreas

  • Dear gentlemen, thank you for interest, comments and valuable suggestions about this fungus. I start tackling all your questions here, and micro in the next post. (...)

    Hi Steve,

    dear Lady and Gentlemen would have been nicer...:gklimper:


    Ahemi: What a pity that our idea is no more a good idea. I didn't know how they look inside, as I never cut one. :gkopfkratz: Of course you're also right with the colour: That of Steve's specimens is far too orange, as one can see in the pic with the cut cuticle.

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


    102 Pilzchips


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  • Dear gentlemen, thank you for interest, comments and valuable suggestions about this fungus. I start tackling all your questions here, and micro in the next post. (...)

    Hi steve,

    dear Lady and Gentlemen would have been nicer ...: clink:


    [user = '17652'] Ahemi [/ user]: What a pity that our idea is no more a good idea. I didn't know how they look inside, as I never cut one. : gkopfkratz: Of course you're also right with the color: That of Steve's specimens is far too orange, as one can see in the pic with the cut cuticle.

    Ooopsss !!!! I didn't realize you are female - I thought all those who have replied were men. No offence intended!


    So my action plan is:


    • Open the soil to see if I detect wooden debris that the fruiting bodies are growing from
    • Dissect two specimens and dry them 35C
    • Leave one specimen to mature at home (if possible)
    • Revisit population this Friday maybe specimens are mature and re-examine


    A note. The orange inside may mean that the mature basidiocarp will open like a cup having an abaxial (lower surface) the one seeing now and an adaxial (upper) surface, the one inside. On the other hand, the tubular hyphae are distinct for a Basidiomycete, not an ascomycete (usually having spherical / prismatic cells).

  • Ooopsss !!!! I didn't realize you are female - I thought all those who have replied were men. No open intended!

    (...)

    No problem, Steve! I was just joking, I'm not offended.

    Just wanted to let you know who's writing...==Gnolm7 it's been my fault...you couldn't see it from my new profile picture.

    My avatar before this one looked like this:


    ...by the way, I'm really excited about your mushroom babies and I'm looking forward to the solution.

    Liebe Grüße,

    Grüni/Kagi ==11


    102 Pilzchips


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    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Grüni/Kagi ()

  • Hi Steve, i cannot tell you what this is neither, if T. helvelloides could be an option, ripe fruitbodies should look like this beneath the microscope, you could compare in case. Kind regards, Ingo


    Ps: personally I rather not think it is tremiscus. I have no other idea unfortunately. So i am looking forward to how it develops!

  • Hello,


    the structures shown are not gelatinous, neither the outer layer nor the medullary layer. So Tremiscus is out, and I think all heterobasidiomycetes are out now. They usually have are very loosely interwoven hyphal system with much space for gelatinous matter inbetween.


    As the hyphae are clampless, I wouldn't rule out ascomycetes per se. The thin hyphae of the excipulum layer looking like a trichoderm could still belong to an ascomycete.


    But another idea: May be it is a very young Cotylidia (pannosa) - I have no experience with this species in immature stadium unluckily.


    all the best,

    Andreas


  • Thanks for the artistic explanation Kruni/ Kagi. I never noticed the micro man/woman icon there - so sweet! Nice ex-avatar pic too. I do my best to get a solution. We wait for it to grow a bit more. Lot of nice people here trying to help! I love it. My M.Sc. is really gonna be interesting.

  • Hi Steve, i cannot tell you what this is neither, if T. helvelloides could be an option, ripe fruitbodies should look like this beneath the microscope, you could compare in case. Kind regards, Ingo


    Ps: personally I rather not think it is tremiscus. I have no other idea unfortunately. So i am looking forward to how it develops!

    Hi Ogni-Volta. You don't have the little man/woman icon lol! I have looked at the link provided showing mycelia of T. helvelloides. One thing in common, there is nothing exciting to see! Your image also fail to show distinct reproductive parts and spores. If I am not tired, I try another round of examinations tonight. I keep you posted and I will travel again to the island I found this population soon.

  • Hi again andreas. I keep your observations in mind.


    Not excluding ascomycetes was a surprise for me because all discomycetes I studied had spherical-pyriform-potato-shape packing hyphae in the medulla or sterile parts. Yet I have not observed a large range of ascomycetes under the microscope so as you say, some genera may after all have the tubular-form packing mycelium.


    I confirm all you said, the flesh is soft and frial like a sorbet but not gelatinous/slimy/viscous. The hypha were tightly bound and I do not expect they will loosen with maturity. I might recheck again tonight. Maybe I go and buy a couple of red bulls today. I have some five other open posts requiring an update which I wish to tackle today. One of these days I post some extraterrestrial fungi from the past :-p (at least one looked like that and nobody had a clue!) so to be continued...


    THANK YOU ALL!

  • Moin!


    Just stopped to say: Wow!

    I've never seen anything like this, not even on pictures or films from other continents.


    It seems quite immature, but maybe those structures in one of the pictures with the droplets inside may become basidia - or asci. :gzwinkern:

    Maybe best wait foir a few days and control them as often as possible, and get one when it's more evolved...



    LG; Pablo.

  • One thing in common, there is nothing exciting to see!
    Your image also fail to show distinct reproductive parts and spores.

    Hi Steve, come on, don’t be so hard! ;) did you have a jelly fungus beneath the mic? Its like playing pinball.. the specimen shoots from one side to the other as you are trying to flatten it with the coverglass.. once you managed it everything looks the same- if it looks at all.. hyaline like glass noodels. So you put dye on it and.. hyphae en masse in between the jelly, other stuff rare. So taking that in account i am pretty proud I finally found some basidia- which you can see in the center of mic pic 3 (head with 4 dreadlocks!). No spores though, you got me there :S

    But its irrelevant anyway.. as Andreas noted the cut fruitbody reveals: no real jelly..

    soo lets see what it looks like when it grows.. anything is possible.. on a hidden island far out…

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